Bra considerations and cheap tricks

Hi everyone! Thanks for your response to my "breasts and bras" post.

I will definitely pursue the subject further. I'd like to try and post regularly about it, covering the matter from different angles (pun intended). And I want to create a bra link page, including all sorts of things from good fitting and/or information, sewing patterns, bra-making tutorials and suppliers of lingerie sewing notions. So, if you have any links like that, please mention them in the comments or email me. Of course, you can also use the email for any specific bra-related questions. 

Today, I thought I would keep it light. A simple "anatomy of the bra", so simple tricks to make RTW bras fit you better and maybe some bra history.

For the last subject, I looked up the entry on bras on Wikipedia. It's here and it's actually quite an interesting read. Of course, it's quite funny that both the title picture and the one in the "mechanical design" chapter show rather badly fitted and worn bras, but that's not my point. Neither is the great quote on the challenges of designing a bra:  "In many respects, the challenge of enclosing and supporting a semi-solid mass of variable volume and shape, plus its adjacent mirror image—together they equal the female bosom—involves a design effort comparable to that of building a bridge or a cantilevered skyscraper." (Wow, no wonder it took me so many tries and I still have to develop the thing further...).

The real issue of the article is this: We don't need bras. Apperently, research has shown that bras don't prevent sagging of the breasts (indeed they may even encourage it) and may, especially when badly fitted and especially with larger breasts cause back, shoulder, arm and breast pain.

It seems that, like the corset in its day, the bra is worn for reasons of vanity, fashion and conformation to social norms, whether those would be of modesty (not showing nipples) or of attraction (to the opposite sex).

If you are considering making your own bras because you find RTW ones uncomfortable or you are looking for a more natural look, read the article, especially the bits about sagging and health issues.

After getting rid of that elephant in the room, let's return to some of my intended post: In that previous post, I discussed bits of bras in terms normally used on blogs by those sewing bras. I don't think any of those were unclear to anyone, because no-one asked about them. However, just in case some people were just too shy to ask, I thought I'd explain anyway:

These are the parts of a bra as I named them. Of course, I such have drawn the shoulderstraps so that they were connected to the wings in the back as well. 

In the Wikipedia article, the "wings" are called "back wings", which is not such a great difference, and what I call the "bridge" is called "gore".

Obviously, there are many different styles of bras. As a result, every element in this drawing can look completely different for any given style, but I think you get the idea. (and I don't want to go into a discussion on styles here because that would be another long talk...)

And now, on to the tricks!

If you don't feel up to the challenge of making your bras, there are many things you can do to make RTW bras fit better.

The main thing to remember is that strange relationship between band size and cup size. And you can use this to your advantage.

Suppose you wear a 75F... This is the kind of size which would force you to go to specialist shops and pay quite a lot for a bra. But the underwire of a 75F is the same size as that of 80E and 85D... 

85D is a standard size in a lot of places. You can try the 85D, purely checking the fit of the cups themselves and whether or not the bridge width is right for you. At home, simply take a seam ripper, take off the hook-and-eye closure, cut away about 4 cm of the band at each side (there's negative ease in the band, so cutting out 10 cm in total would make it too small. Obviously it's best to check how much length to remove before you cut) and stitch the closure back on using a small zigzag stitch on the sewing machine. This will put the back connection of the shoulder straps closer to center back but that's usually not uncomfortable at all (if you think it will be, take out length of the band at each side of the strap)

And suppose you wear an 85A. This size can also be hard to find. But the wire should be the same as 80B which you can get everywhere. 

In this case, the solution is even simpler. Many lingerie stores and sewing supply stores sell bra band extension things: pieces of elastic with hooks on one end and eyes on the other. These come in one and two band size options and can simply be hooked onto the bra's normal closure.

Of course, here you also have to take care the front of the bra fits you properly.

My third tip has to do with shoulder straps, and it comes with an anecdote:

A few months ago, I was fitting a young lady for her wedding dress. She was petite and wore something like a 75B bra. Not a size which should cause anyone trouble. Of course, she had taken her bra off for the fitting of her strapless wedding dress. I pinned the hem, she tried on veils and her mother took some pictures. The whole operation took at least half an hour. When I helped her out of the dress, I noticed she still had red marks on her shoulders from the shoulder straps of her bra. Normally, I don't comment on customer's own clothes and lingerie, but in this case I thought I would. 

When I asked about those shoulder straps, she told me they were painfully tight but she had had issues with straps slipping off her shoulders and the lady at the lingerie store told her she should tighten the straps to deal with that... So, I recommended she'd try other bra styles, like halter or racerback.

Later I remembered there's an even simpler solution yet: the same places which sell the bra extensions often also sell a kind of "hook" for shoulder straps. With that thing, you can pull the straps of a normal bra together at center back which prevents slipping straps without them having to be very tight.

I suppose everyone knows a bra should "carry" the breasts on the band and cups, which distributes the weight of the breasts on the torso. If the shoulder straps are so tight they pull up the back of the band, that weight drags on the shoulders instead.

I think this is enough for today. Please weigh in with your opinion on the bra debate, your links and any other comments or questions.

Around the globe or "what the nice saleslady won't tell you"

Hi everyone. Today, I'd like to discuss breasts.
Dear male readers, my apologies but this post is really for those who have breasts, wear bras and may considers making those. Regular posting about sewing, clothes and the like will resume with the next post.

In her comment to my previous post, The Perfect Nose (about whose own explorations into bra pattern making I told you in that post) asked if it's wouldn't be worth it to make a bust form to test my bra patterns. I have to admit it sound like a great idea but I happen to know it is not as easy as it sounds.
When I made Mary, my ductape body double, I had trouble with her curves straight away. Once I had been cut out of it, all the stick-out bits just lost their real size shape very easily. The breast were an even bigger issue. I don't remember whether or not I was wearing a bra when I was being wrapped in tape to create Mary. I think I wasn't. I should have worn one though. A fitted t-shirt (the appropriate underlayer for a ductape dummy) will make the breasts a bit flatter anyway. Add some tightly wrapped layers of tape and there will be preciously little curve left. 
As a result, the top I draped on Mary was always a bit snug around the chest...

Of course, I have learned from the Mary experience but nevertheless, I'm sure I wouldn't be able to create a bust form which would actually work for the purpose of helping me draft bra patterns. Not even with professional dummy maker help.
The pattern maker's study of breast has something in common with sub-atomic partical physics: it's just not possible to measure the damn things without influencing them. And if you could accurately measure one property, you'd still be completely in the dark about other important properties. 
In the case of breasts, one might succeed in making a bust form which shows the breast in its proper size and shape, but real breast are soft tissue...

As a start, what is a breast's "proper shape" anyway? It's natural, unsupported shape? The natural shape it had when it first reached its full size? The shape it has when supported by a favorite bra?
Vintage fashion lovers will be well aware of the changing ideas about this over time: from the pigeon chested monoboob of the Edwardian era to the flat-chested "garconne" of the 1920's and from the conical shapes of the 1950's to the natural look of the 1970's... And if you think we're all about "supporting our natural assets" today, take a good look at the contents of any lingerie store: Most are filled back to front and top to bottom with foam globes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against foam cups per se, but I think it's not correct to think of that as a natural shape. And don't get me started on those push-ups which are ever increasing in size (personally, I am against those)

Just stand in front of a mirror without a bra on: breasts tend to be more or less drop shaped, round at the bottom and hanging in a straight line from the upper rib cage at the top, and pointy towards the nipple. 
In my work, I've fitted a lot women for bridal lingerie. In the process, I've learned about all those fitting issues which are not captured in bra sizes. 
Women's breasts vary in size, shape and in what I would here, for the sake of the discussion, like to call "texture": the degree of softness or firmness of the tissue. All these vary over the course of one's life depending on influences such as age, weight fluctuations, pregnancy and nursing, exercise and the degree of support the breasts received during those changes. 

Typically, bra sizing is based on the difference between bust measurement (measured at the fullest point, often when wearing a bra. this is because larger or softer breasts will hang significantly lower when unsupported) and underbust measurement. However, the same measurements won't even put you in the same size of different brands. Some use stronger or less strong elastic for the band, which influences the circumference size needed for each wearer. Similarly, each brand's definition of cup size may be different. 
I suppose I don't have to tell you (although I've come across a lot of women who don't know this) how bra sizing works: cup sizes are defined in relation to band sizes. As a result the size of the underwire itself for a 70E is the same as that for a 75D, 80C, 85B and 90A. The size of the underwire and the content of the cup. So, in fact, a statement like "I always wear a B cup" is meaningless....
The letters don't mean anything on their own. The sizes I mentioned are the ones we use in the Netherlands: band sizes in centimeters. In other countries, other systems are used but there is always this relationship between circumference and cup size.

At a fitting, your size will be determined based on the difference between those two measurements. However, that opens up a minefield of issues. For example, sporty ladies may be put into too large a cup size because strong, and therefore a bit bulky, back muscles are measured into that all-important bust measurement. Much more common, especially in smaller sizes, is another issue: there is now fixed relationship between breast surface on the ribcabe and breast volume. Most bra brands shape their cups in the same way for all sizes (maybe with some extra support for for larger sizes), just making them larger or smaller on a linear scale. Women with breasts tend to have a flat chest, rather than small round breasts with more space around them. In a lot of cases  , women with A cup measurements (for any circumference) have breasts with a surface on the ribcage which is wider than an A cup underwire. 
Underwires have to fit around each breast. If they don't, the bra will, in effect, push the breast tissue that sits under and outside the wire towards the armpit and, over time, damage the shape of the breast. 
As a seamstress making a bra, you have the option of going with the wire size you need and adapting the volume of the cup. If you know you may need to do this, pick a pattern with a seam which runs over the middle of the breast. Make a muslin, with a the underwires in place, try it on and pin out excess fabric along that seam. 

So far, we've actually only discussed general sizing, the problems with that and one issue when fitting breasts singly. Most of us (and all of us who shop in regular lingerie stores and/or buy commercial bra sewing patterns) have two breasts. Fitting both of them well presents even more problems. These issues are more often felt by those with larger sizes. It has to do with breast placement on the ribcage. In each bra, the breast is assumed to be in a certain place. Of course, all commercial brands have fitting models and good ones may have large files about women's shapes and sizes, so that placement will largely be in line with that of the breasts of the average woman. But who is to say you are average? 
Add to that the fact that no brand ever fits for all sizes separately, and you will begin to see the problem. By the way, this is also why, above a D cup, bras from from brands which specialize in larger cup sizes will often fit better. "Normal" brands assume 75 or 80B is the standard size (although now, many have moved on to 75 or 80C), fit their designs for that size and grade up and down from there. Specialist brands will fit their designs on a fit models who have a size which is average in their size range.
No matter what size you have, you should always pay attention to how the underwires sit on your body. They should lie flat on the ribcage around your breasts. If they are pushed forward in the middle, the bridge of that particular bra is too wide for you. I don't have a large cup size and I had to adjust my self-drafted pattern a little bit for this. At work, I see this issue often in the D+ sizes (probably because corselette brands use a B or C cup as a standard). When buying bras, women with small cup sizes rarely come across this problem because most of the styles available to them are half-cup bras. This means the cups are partially cut away at the center front, eliminating a significant part of that potentially troubling bridge. Because larger breasts need more support, a lot of styles for larger cup sizes will have a full height bridge.

Wow, this is already a very information-heavy post. It's probably enough for now. I have a lot more to say about breasts and bras but I think I'll leave that for some other time.
Please let me know if you're interested in that sort of thing.